O

n a sunny Saturday afternoon, Gracious Words staff grabbed coffee with Andrew Oen and Michael Chen at a neighborhood Starbucks. In this friendly chat, we learned that Andrew is sensitive to caffeine (shh, he has re-gifted the Starbucks gift cards you gave him for Christmas), but that Michael loves coffee. Andrew told us how he met his wife; Michael told us about his reaction to being nominated to the Executive Board, and we told them that their articles (appeared in in last issue) have received many hits on the Gracious Words online magazine. Surprise! On this happy thought, we went straight to our interview with our two new star writers.

(GW) How did you come to CGBC? Have you ever attended other churches? What is it about CGBC that makes you want to be a part of it?

(AO) Twenty years ago when I came to Sacramento for my new job, I was introduced to CGBC by a friend. My first impression of CGBC was that people were friendly and they seemed genuine. I started serving in various roles at the church soon after joining CGBC. I met my wife Mabel here at CGBC while we were serving together in the young adult group. About ten years ago I started getting more actively involved in the leadership of the English congregation and the overall church.

(MC) After college, my parents wanted me to join them in Sacramento at CGBC, and that’s how I came to CGBC. I grew a lot in gospel truth and love at my churches in Ohio and the Bay Area, but I’ve also been blessed to be a part of CGBC. It’s my first Chinese church, and it took me some adjustment, but the church has been really generous in giving me chances to serve and grow in my character, convictions, and ministry competencies.  It’s a blessing to be a member among people who love God’s Word so much.

(GW) Andrew, you expressed your thoughts and shared some of your vision as the chair of the Executive Board in an article published in the last issue. Now that you have fulfilled your term as the chair, would you share with us what you see as the most valuable experience or lesson? To the future chairs and leaders, can you forward them an encouragement from the Bible?

(AO) My one-year term as the chair was definitely a different and humbling experience for me. It made me see my own imperfections and weaknesses in a greater way. It made me re-examine my own relationship with God and reevaluate my commitment at CGBC. I am very grateful for those who have helped, encouraged, and prayed for me during that year.

In terms of the most valuable lesson serving as the chair, I am going to give you an example. In the Living Life QT reading, I’ve been reading about the differences between David and King Saul. The more I read, the more unsettling it is for me, as I see some of King Saul’s characteristics in myself. I find myself identifying with him sometimes. You see, it was not easy to be a king, and Saul was constantly under pressure and stress. Many times Saul was unsure of God’s presence in his life and unsure of whether the people wanted to follow him. There are actually some similarities between Saul and David. We tend to see Saul as all bad and David as all good, but the truth is that there were instances where David lacked faith in God and wasn’t truthful to those around him. We all doubt God sometimes when there is pressure. I also learned that leaders and pastors are never perfect, and that we should remember that they too, will at times love themselves more than they love God. Maybe I have more of Saul in me; I don’t know. We are all sinners who fall short of God’s grace. Our plan is not as important as God’s plan. As Christians, how do we remain focused and on task? How do we follow God and know His plan? Do we love God more than we love ourselves?

As for the future chairs, my advice and reminder is that we will be tested in our ministry and in our personal walks with God. People watch what we do. And it is not an easy job to be the chair of the Executive Board. My advice would be to always challenge yourself to see things as God sees them, not just how we see them. Many times what we think is right is not aligned with God’s plan and will.

(GW) Michael, you joined the Executive Board this year. Being the newest and youngest member, can you share with us what you have experienced so far and any goals you have set for yourself? How do you see your assets being contributed to the ministry? You are also a TIGS sponsor. How do you find balance in maintaining your everyday life? Andrew, do you have any advice to Michael?

(MC) I was really surprised to be nominated to join the Executive Board, but I’m honored to serve. My main goal is to learn and grow and be helpful as much as I can. I also want to get to know church people and areas outside my normal circles, especially people in the Cantonese and Mandarin congregations.

As for achieving a balance in my everyday life, I don’t assume that I’ve achieved it. I don’t know that my life is balanced, but I want it to be faithful. I try to set a priority list every week because I can get spread pretty thin, and I want to be faithful with the most important things.

(AO) Michael, I think it is a constant challenge to balance things in life in general, no matter what stage of life you are in. Frankly speaking, when you are involved in ministry, the challenge of balancing your time only increases the older you get. But it is through these times of  “chaos” and “lack of control” that God can remind us that He is ultimately in control. To give you another analogy of what being a church leader may feel like (even though you may not relate to it yet): Being a leader in the church is almost like being a parent of the church. You do everything to provide for the church as parents do for their children. And when there is chaos and stress, you find ways to cope the way parents often do. Many times you don’t know all the answers. And it can be unsettling to be a parent when you are still going through the process of learning what it means to be a parent.

(GW) OK. Let’s switch gears for a second. Initially, we were going to ask you to share your experience of attending or participating in an all-church event. Now we’d like ask a variation of the question: “Please share with us an all-church event that you were contemplating on attending, but decided not to get involved. Why?”

(AO) In my younger years, when our church held joint services in two languages, I found it difficult and distracting to sit through the service listening to another language. It was a challenge for me to listen to a sermon when every sentence was being interrupted by translation. At that time, I just saw church as a way for me to develop my own relationship with God. I was not mature enough to understand that the church was more about a faith community coming together to worship God and to teach, disciple, and encourage each other in our walks with God. My views started to change after my first significant experience in an all-church event, the Strategic Leadership Team formed a few years ago. It was an eye-opening experience for me. I didn’t recognize half of the attendees. I felt like we were not really one church, but three separate ones. It’s like living under one roof but not talking to your family members. I was troubled by my own lack of interaction with my “family members” in the Cantonese and Mandarin congregations. I don’t think that’s what God intends for us as a church body. When I joined the Executive Board, I figured that it was time for me to set a good example for others, and I made a point to attend other services or functions where English is not the only spoken language. To be honest, I am humbled by this experience and have learned that I actually can be pretty adaptable.

(MC) I couldn’t attend the lay leadership summits in Spring 2013 and Spring 2014 because of schedule conflicts. In 2013, that was the only weekend we could record the Nessun Dorma musical for Kurt Lee, and in 2014, TIGS had already made Winter Outing reservations and couldn’t change them. I’m sorry I couldn’t come to these lay leadership summits. I would have loved to enjoy them otherwise.

(GW) TIGS is an epitome of a ministry that serves people from all three congregations. These youths come from different family and cultural backgrounds. Does this difference in background reflect in or affect parental involvement? As a parent whose children are members of TIGS, Andrew, can you share with us your participation in this ministry?

(MC) Since I speak English, I naturally interact more with English parents than with Cantonese or Mandarin parents. Sometimes Cantonese or Mandarin parents talk with me, but most of the time, they don’t. I would love to get to know these parents better, especially since I want TIGS to partner with them to disciple their children. TIGS doesn’t want to try to take the parents’ job of disciplining them. The Bible says that it’s the fathers’ responsibility (Ephesians 6:4). We’re eager to do whatever we can to help parents bring their children up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

(AO) I don’t have direct involvement with the ministry, but I try to maintain a personal relationship with each sponsor. I pray for them for wisdom to teach all kids because it is very important to parents to know that they can trust these sponsors to cultivate their children’s spiritual lives. Although I am the one primarily responsible for raising my kids in the Lord, it is very important for me to know that the sponsors I entrust to help me in raising my kids are also growing in their walks with the Lord.

(GW) Andrew, as the treasure of the board, what seems to be the most challenging task for you? Does Michael have a designated responsibility?

I am very good with numbers, so it’s not a huge challenge for me to manage church finances. However, certain roles in the finance ministry can be very labor intensive and may I add, not very visible. I know that people can feel underappreciated or even unappreciated when serving behind the scenes. I think what I am trying to say is that in any ministry, people inevitably feel burned out after serving for a number of years. My challenge and goal is to reach out to people who are on the verge of feeling burned out and to encourage them with my experience. There are many examples of this in the church. For instance, at times we expect too much of our pastors. We want them to attend to our every need. We expect them to have all the answers for us. This unrealistic expectation has to be checked from time to time. We are members at CGBC and we all share responsibility for caring for one another. It cannot be just the pastors who patch our emotional wounds and attend to our spiritual needs. We as lay people also have to lend a hand when someone staggers and needs support. I have to admit that I am not really a people person, and I always think as lay board members, we have to try to seize any opportunity to reach out to other people without being asked. Pastors often play the role of counselors because church members go to them for advices. I think we as Board members have to share that responsibility as well.

The Executive Board is not task oriented—we don’t assign each member a designated job. We know that God has given all believers spiritual gifts to serve the church, and we want each Board member to find his/her passion and serve in his/her area of gifting and passion for the glory of God and His church. It’s more of a shepherding mind-set, and less of a task driven mind-set.

(GW) You have read in GW about all-church ministries such as the Connection ministry, and church bus ministry, or even the exciting GW ministry. Have you thought about venturing out of your area of expertise and serving at any of these ministries? Which ministry would you pick? Why?

(AO) I’d love to play violin for the choir, or drive the bus. However, I feel called to “behind the scenes” ministries instead of being out front. In any church or organization, there are duties and responsibilities that need to be done. If there are others who are called to serve behind the scenes and feel led to take on some church leadership roles, I would be happy to try other things. I give you my word: after my kids go off to college, I’ll come and join the choir.

(MC) Your time and energy isn’t infinite; it’s limited. Every time you say yes to one thing, you say no to another. When I was younger, I had a lot of energy, and I threw myself into everything I could for God’s glory. But I’m busier now and feel my limitations more, and I’m slower to take on new responsibilities so I don’t miss out on my main responsibilities. I know I’ll miss some things, but I don’t want to miss the most important things. I want to be faithful with the most important things.

As was mentioned earlier, this dialogue definitely yields unexpected surprises. We all agree that communication of this kind should take place more often among all congregations. Now that we know a little bit more about Andrew and Michael, we hope that this interview will be a catalyst to more productive and meaningful communication in the future.